| WIRED's Steven Levy has interviewed Bill Gates dozens of times over the course of decades. They've developed a distinctive rapport, with Gates growing increasingly blunt in his comments. Often, he fires off zingers in defense of what has become a controversial position: that in spite of climate change and an ongoing pandemic, the world is on a good track, and much of humanity's condition can in fact improve. Still, he's got feedback for the rest of us. In their latest conversation, conducted during the TED conference in Vancouver, Gates critiqued the US's handling of the pandemic, Levy's Covid anxiety, and—on occasion—his interlocutor's intelligence. The billionaire shot down Levy's many attempts to argue that civilization was on the decline, except on one point. "The polarization of US politics, and what that might lead to, is something that I can't fit in my normal framework that things improve," Gates conceded. "OK," Levy interjected. "There's something that we both agree is a regression." The two burst out laughing. Levy left the interview amazed at how their conversational dynamic had evolved into that of a high school debate club. "In a weird way, it's a compliment," Levy says now. He sees it as a nod to their long history in tech. Fittingly, they ended the interview with a look to the future of computers—why they're still dumb, but also how to fix them. Sandra Upson | Features Editor |
